Some thoughts on the current balance I have a few cards that i need to test more like drill to have a proper opinion on but have tested a lot The geode cards are kinda a joke because you spend so long to upgrade and them for them to turn into a helmet / ingot I think that something needs to change maybe something like using a geode buffs it by 1 at the same time? Could also nerf ingot and helmet but im not sure thats needed but honestly i think people would take them if they did 5 instead of 10 but that would still leave them better then most geodes.
Meteorites are in a weird spot for me I think they have some potential to brick you but the 0 cost can make upgrading them feel a lot easier then normal resources
Quartz (thats the retain one right) eating into your draw really hurts its viability especially because when you get a good deck with a lot of draw it effectively makes them just worse then regular resources because the upgrades are getting half effect if you have good cycle and if you want to get rid of them without wasting your whole turn you need a tool so it seams like its just a early game trap.
Cave cat seams almost unplayably bad i haven't tested it directly but looking at numbers its quite bad.
Jerboa targeting random might be possible to make work with very careful deck manipulation but it seams like it would never be worth the effort compared to screwdriver and thats already kinda bad compared to lenses i would suggest nerfing it to +2 but make it hit 2 targets instead.
this isnt directly a balance thing but theres a tactic that i do quite often thats quite strong but feels really stupid, When you have the option to draw for no reason a lot of the time thats going to be a good idea because you play all your good cards first so they end up in your discard pile that often means you get like 3 resources at the end of your deck so very likely to brick on your next draw so to help avoid that its optimal to check if you have draw in your draw pile and if you dont waste a bit of energy to not brick.
I think the Geode cards are balanced by low ore cost in the shop. I consider Scorium Geode generally a higher buy than Helmet for this reason.
I've had poor results with Quartz due to the blocked draws. I've won (on Adventure) with pumping Scorium Quartz as my main strategy but it felt more like I was winning despite the Quartz than because of it.
I've tried Cave Cat and never won with it. I think generally anything that costs 2+ has to be pretty bonkers to be viable. Cat can get large but if you're pumping your deck full of random junk to make it happen then you draw the Cat less often.
I think Lens & Prospect pretty much cover upgrades & I don't buy any of the other upgraders unless I have some unusual build that really needs them.
The more I play the more i like torch and i already really liked it once i read it the flexibility of energy vs draw makes it very good much less likely to brick you and is also useful in all stages of the game
lol my build was so good, but despite that i almost lost because i bricked the last turn lol. Thankfully i played it safe and got all the score needed on the second last turn instead of being even more greedy then i was lol I think the gems are quite good ( esp the score version) if you have high energy generation also plays really nice with axe and shovel I was kinda surprised by it because i didnt find what i was looking for at the start (mineshafts)
I actually find this much easier than the old version. combining mine shaft and escape rope makes it pretty easy to get score and ore with far fewer cards and no need of the wrench
Beat it on brutal. The seeming lack of bats and fish make it somewhat more difficult to get mine shafts going, but the new update does still seem to permit action-focused runs via e.g. the creature and helmets/minecarts. The new resource cards are a huge improvement, imho, and the art is more professional, though some of the charm of the aesthetic of the older version has been lost. It seems an upgrade overall, which is pretty rare for updates to games nowadays. Well done.
Just like the previous version, the game is very polished and feels great to play. I wishlisted it right away and hope there's a lot of additional content that goes beyond the demo. But I also want to add my two cents regarding the balance of the game.
I know this will come off as a bit strong, but I've been getting this nagging feeling that there is pretty much no depth to the game. As far as I can tell, there are only a handful of strategies that can get you all the way to the end. While the rest, even if they turn out optimally (which they don't most of the time), will fall apart 3/4 in. Or even way before that.
Most cards simply don't scale quickly enough to keep up with the increasing requirements. Sometimes I feel like I'd need about 3-4 additional levels before I could actually get a proper engine running. The runs are simply too short and don't allow you to mess up in any way. Which makes most strategies useless if you actually want to finish the game.
I'm not sure if this is a case of "the game is simply difficult". Because almost every single time I lose I feel like I didn't even stand a chance. So I just repeat the same two strategies over and over that actually do work. But they are so much better than everything else that I'm not sure this can be fixed by changing some numbers. There's a fundamental design issue here where the gameplay loop doesn't allow for any cards that don't scale by least 50% every single round.
Additionally, I'm a bit disappointed with the variety of synergies. The strategies seem to be very clear-cut and I haven't found a single interesting synergy so far. It always feels like you're trying to get to the exact same endgame build. The available cards are simply to specific and require very specific other cards to get to their full potential. I feel like there should be a more "freeform" approach to card design, that allows you to actually mix and match different cards. Right now, as soon as I pick my first card, 90% of the other cards become mostly useless.
I realize this seems like a lot of negativity, but I really like the game and want it to succeed. So I hope this helped in one way or another.
By the way, not sure if it's just me, but this whole "flow state" things strikes me as really weird. Not sure why you chose to go with that angle.
thank you for the feedback! this is only the first version of the demo, so now that i have access to all the public feedback and more playtesting data, i can make positive changes and hopefully improve the balance with each update. could i ask which difficulty you played on?
I mostly played on Adventurer. Also tried the other ones, but I thought this was the intended way to play the game, so my comments are based on that difficulty.
I have only played Brutal and I have not had even close to a failed run yet so have been setting my own challenges currently trying to get to 3k score and ore, granted in the old version I could easily pass 20k of each, but the challenge level is not what it once was, the choices you made early before could really come back to bite you at the 35 level. Would be nice in the full version if there were a path to upgrade cards other than ore and scoreium and possibly ever path options to the core with something like 'one less turn this way but ore doubled' and such. or even the card set not fully unlocked so for something like screwdriver you need to spend x ore to unlock it forever. Good game still.
Love the update to the game! Seems like there are more viable strategies now which is great, and the new ore types are really cool and welcome change.
After a few wins, I just played a low economy game in which I was able to just squeak by with just upgrading, a few helmets, and a really slim deck lol.
if you are playing on desktop, it should fullscreen automatically - if you are on web, it wouldn't be available, but i will try to add that feature in a future update!
80% of runs are lost in the first round - if you don't get the 2x ore required each turn not much point in playing on (you'll miss out on the +1 turns). More restartminer than retrominer. It's not so much 'a difficult game' as an unbalanced one - if you can tweak the balance I think it would be great, but right now most strategires and combos are irrelevant, they are overwhelmed by the "play it exactly one way or else you are guaranteeed to los", making it more of a puzzle (second-guessing the designer's preferred combo) than a game.
Love the downvotes. If you do the maths, most cards in the game are completely useless - because of the artificial limits there is a very low maximum number of turns that can happen, a very low number of reshuffles that can happen, which breaks most cards (they would work fine in a normal, non-limited, game). Only a very few actually scale as fast as the game increases the required limit - if you stick it in a spreadsheet issues like this become much easier to see.
This does seem to be a lot more balanced than the previous version, and the lower difficulties make it a lot more accessible. Previous versions were almost completely dominated by decks that revolved around wrenches(IIRC) , but the introduction of 0-cost cantrip ores and 0-cost cantrip upgraders gives ores a fighting chance.
Played through the relaxed and adventure difficulties a few times each already, getting a feel for all the differences from the original and really enjoying this new version!! Love the art of all the lil creatures <3 and the new resource types. Super excited to experiment with everything!
WOWW what an upgrade. This looks and feels so much nicer than the first version! I really really am enjoying the new cards. They all feel very intentional and nice to play with. The new art is also AMAZINGG. You did such a wonderful job, I can't wait to see more updates in the future!
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Some thoughts on the current balance I have a few cards that i need to test more like drill to have a proper opinion on but have tested a lot
The geode cards are kinda a joke because you spend so long to upgrade and them for them to turn into a helmet / ingot I think that something needs to change maybe something like using a geode buffs it by 1 at the same time? Could also nerf ingot and helmet but im not sure thats needed but honestly i think people would take them if they did 5 instead of 10 but that would still leave them better then most geodes.
Meteorites are in a weird spot for me I think they have some potential to brick you but the 0 cost can make upgrading them feel a lot easier then normal resources
Quartz (thats the retain one right) eating into your draw really hurts its viability especially because when you get a good deck with a lot of draw it effectively makes them just worse then regular resources because the upgrades are getting half effect if you have good cycle and if you want to get rid of them without wasting your whole turn you need a tool so it seams like its just a early game trap.
Cave cat seams almost unplayably bad i haven't tested it directly but looking at numbers its quite bad.
Jerboa targeting random might be possible to make work with very careful deck manipulation but it seams like it would never be worth the effort compared to screwdriver and thats already kinda bad compared to lenses i would suggest nerfing it to +2 but make it hit 2 targets instead.
this isnt directly a balance thing but theres a tactic that i do quite often thats quite strong but feels really stupid, When you have the option to draw for no reason a lot of the time thats going to be a good idea because you play all your good cards first so they end up in your discard pile that often means you get like 3 resources at the end of your deck so very likely to brick on your next draw so to help avoid that its optimal to check if you have draw in your draw pile and if you dont waste a bit of energy to not brick.
I think the Geode cards are balanced by low ore cost in the shop.
I consider Scorium Geode generally a higher buy than Helmet for this reason.
I've had poor results with Quartz due to the blocked draws.
I've won (on Adventure) with pumping Scorium Quartz as my main strategy but it felt more like I was winning despite the Quartz than because of it.
I've tried Cave Cat and never won with it. I think generally anything that costs 2+ has to be pretty bonkers to be viable. Cat can get large but if you're pumping your deck full of random junk to make it happen then you draw the Cat less often.
I think Lens & Prospect pretty much cover upgrades & I don't buy any of the other upgraders unless I have some unusual build that really needs them.
thank you for the thoughtful feedback on balance! i will definitely take this into consideration when making the balance patch
Only bought one card , the mole, this run
The more I play the more i like torch and i already really liked it once i read it the flexibility of energy vs draw makes it very good much less likely to brick you and is also useful in all stages of the game
I think the gems are quite good ( esp the score version) if you have high energy generation also plays really nice with axe and shovel I was kinda surprised by it because i didnt find what i was looking for at the start (mineshafts)
Finally nailed it !
It appears that aquifer isn't properly upgrading ores that get bonuses when upgraded. I used an aquifer on ore corite and I only got +1 to it
you are right - thank you, i will have that fixed in a future patch!
Beat it on brutal. The seeming lack of bats and fish make it somewhat more difficult to get mine shafts going, but the new update does still seem to permit action-focused runs via e.g. the creature and helmets/minecarts. The new resource cards are a huge improvement, imho, and the art is more professional, though some of the charm of the aesthetic of the older version has been lost. It seems an upgrade overall, which is pretty rare for updates to games nowadays. Well done.
thank you! i'm glad you enjoyed the new version <3
Just like the previous version, the game is very polished and feels great to play. I wishlisted it right away and hope there's a lot of additional content that goes beyond the demo. But I also want to add my two cents regarding the balance of the game.
I know this will come off as a bit strong, but I've been getting this nagging feeling that there is pretty much no depth to the game. As far as I can tell, there are only a handful of strategies that can get you all the way to the end. While the rest, even if they turn out optimally (which they don't most of the time), will fall apart 3/4 in. Or even way before that.
Most cards simply don't scale quickly enough to keep up with the increasing requirements. Sometimes I feel like I'd need about 3-4 additional levels before I could actually get a proper engine running. The runs are simply too short and don't allow you to mess up in any way. Which makes most strategies useless if you actually want to finish the game.
I'm not sure if this is a case of "the game is simply difficult". Because almost every single time I lose I feel like I didn't even stand a chance. So I just repeat the same two strategies over and over that actually do work. But they are so much better than everything else that I'm not sure this can be fixed by changing some numbers. There's a fundamental design issue here where the gameplay loop doesn't allow for any cards that don't scale by least 50% every single round.
Additionally, I'm a bit disappointed with the variety of synergies. The strategies seem to be very clear-cut and I haven't found a single interesting synergy so far. It always feels like you're trying to get to the exact same endgame build. The available cards are simply to specific and require very specific other cards to get to their full potential. I feel like there should be a more "freeform" approach to card design, that allows you to actually mix and match different cards. Right now, as soon as I pick my first card, 90% of the other cards become mostly useless.
I realize this seems like a lot of negativity, but I really like the game and want it to succeed. So I hope this helped in one way or another.
By the way, not sure if it's just me, but this whole "flow state" things strikes me as really weird. Not sure why you chose to go with that angle.
thank you for the feedback! this is only the first version of the demo, so now that i have access to all the public feedback and more playtesting data, i can make positive changes and hopefully improve the balance with each update. could i ask which difficulty you played on?
I mostly played on Adventurer. Also tried the other ones, but I thought this was the intended way to play the game, so my comments are based on that difficulty.
I have only played Brutal and I have not had even close to a failed run yet so have been setting my own challenges currently trying to get to 3k score and ore, granted in the old version I could easily pass 20k of each, but the challenge level is not what it once was, the choices you made early before could really come back to bite you at the 35 level. Would be nice in the full version if there were a path to upgrade cards other than ore and scoreium and possibly ever path options to the core with something like 'one less turn this way but ore doubled' and such. or even the card set not fully unlocked so for something like screwdriver you need to spend x ore to unlock it forever. Good game still.
After a few wins, I just played a low economy game in which I was able to just squeak by with just upgrading, a few helmets, and a really slim deck lol.
cracked
Axolotyl saved the day! I got this one by 2 gold. Didn't get the win tho :(
Can you make it full screen? It's annoying to keep zooming out every time I want to play.
if you are playing on desktop, it should fullscreen automatically - if you are on web, it wouldn't be available, but i will try to add that feature in a future update!
First Brutal win. Goated game!
This is the best game since sliced bread
big cube 🟨⛏️
80% of runs are lost in the first round - if you don't get the 2x ore required each turn not much point in playing on (you'll miss out on the +1 turns). More restartminer than retrominer. It's not so much 'a difficult game' as an unbalanced one - if you can tweak the balance I think it would be great, but right now most strategires and combos are irrelevant, they are overwhelmed by the "play it exactly one way or else you are guaranteeed to los", making it more of a puzzle (second-guessing the designer's preferred combo) than a game.
i’m sorry to hear that ^^ this is the very first version of this demo, i plan to address all player feedback and balance in future updates!
I'm curious to know what you think is the one way to clear the game, bc I highly doubt it's the setup I steamrolled with lol
Love the downvotes. If you do the maths, most cards in the game are completely useless - because of the artificial limits there is a very low maximum number of turns that can happen, a very low number of reshuffles that can happen, which breaks most cards (they would work fine in a normal, non-limited, game). Only a very few actually scale as fast as the game increases the required limit - if you stick it in a spreadsheet issues like this become much easier to see.
it honestly looks and plays amazing. you can tell how much heart and hard work was put into this
thank you <3
This does seem to be a lot more balanced than the previous version, and the lower difficulties make it a lot more accessible. Previous versions were almost
completely dominated by decks that revolved around wrenches(IIRC) , but the introduction of 0-cost cantrip ores and 0-cost cantrip upgraders gives ores a fighting chance.
thank you! i was really trying to address all the feedback on those things from the classic version!
Played through the relaxed and adventure difficulties a few times each already, getting a feel for all the differences from the original and really enjoying this new version!! Love the art of all the lil creatures <3 and the new resource types. Super excited to experiment with everything!
what an amazing overhaul!! super looking forward to the full version and being able to play on steam :D
WOWW what an upgrade. This looks and feels so much nicer than the first version! I really really am enjoying the new cards. They all feel very intentional and nice to play with. The new art is also AMAZINGG. You did such a wonderful job, I can't wait to see more updates in the future!